Вы не знаете, что это "семический анализ"?
Feb. 7th, 2010 07:45 pm"Мы говорили уже, что первой и основной формой
нашего исследования является анализ высших
форм поведения; но положение в современной
психологии таково, что, прежде чем подойти к
анализу проблем, перед нами встает проблема
самого анализа" (Л.С. Выготский, 1931*)
* = История развития высших психических функций - Глава третья.
Пожалуйста,
In some inner meetings of Vygotsky's group, around 1932-33-34, there was an interesting claim from him about methodological problem of the analysis: "Семический анализ есть единственный адекватный метод изучения системного и смыслового строения сознания" = something like: "[Semicheskii] analysis is the only adequate method for the study of the systemic and [smyslovoe] structure [or construction (?) = stroenie]" of consciousness" ("The Problem of Consciousness" - Collected Works - Volume I - this text was published before as: Л.С.ВЫГОТСКИЙ. Проблема сознания. Запись основных положений доклада 5.12.32 - Психология грамматики. Под редакцией А. А. Леонтьева и Т. В. Рябовой. 1968. - we here had a copy provide by Nikolai Veresov).
Well, in my Portuguese version I have a great problem not exactly because "stroenie" translation as "structure" - spite the word is not "struktura" - but mainly with "semicheskii" that was translated as "semiotic" and Vygotsky's word was not "semioticheskii" - French version translate the same "semitcheskii" has "sémantique" - but this is not so comfortable too, because "smyslovoe" in Portuguese was transformed in "semantic" too. But there is "semantika" and "semanticheskii" in Russian too, at least in present time. I don't know about actual familiarity of Vygotsky with terms such as "semiotics", "semantics", and so on, at that time...
How can we better translate "semicheskii analiz" today? Or, even better: by what methodological means did somebody actually proceed that kind of so important analysis, at that times? To what methodology Vygotsky concretely refereed with the term "semicheskii analiz" ("the only adequate method for the study of the systemic and "semantic" [smyslovoe] "construction" [stroenie] of consciousness")? -- The only title in Russian around this matter that in find in Google search was: Аснин, В. И. & Запорожец, А. В. (1935). Семический анализ языковых значений, усвоенных в школе. Сборник исследований харьковской группы; не был опубликован - something like Asnin, V.I & Zaporozhets, A.V. (1935) Semicheskii analysis of linguistic (?) meanings, adopted in school. Collection of investigations of Kharkov's group. ---> but this was not published...
Can I suppose that not only Vygotsky believed that "semicheskii analysis" was important, but even some people apply it in empirical research? Ow, sure... I can found many entries to "semic analysis" in contemporary semiotic studies, but seems to be no much in a "genetic" approach like is useful to Vygotsky's studies... A "sema" (сема) is "a unity of the linguistic meaning", but current "semic analysis" seems to give no much importance to the developing character o meaning (and sense). Therefore I am very limited in choice an adequate translation, and even more limited in understand the actual concept... "semiotic analysis"(?), "analyse sémantique"(?), "semic analysis"(?) - this was not any kind of "concept formation" study, was it?
In addition I can say to you that I feel this is a methodological subject matter related to the very important question of the "textual analysis" – that is a necessary resource to study the own Vygotsky's and other Soviet/Russian relevant works in history of psychology... Can we find some kind of vygotskian methodology to study the meaning of the own vygotskian texts, for instance? I can remember that “semitcheskii analysis” perhaps could be nowadays related with studies in “Translation theory”, like Sirovatkin*, for instance… around the concept of “semicheskii akt”, quoted by A.A. Khudiakov:
* = Сыроваткин С.Н. Теория перевода в аспекте функциональной лингвосемиотики. – Калинин: Изд-во Калининского гос. ун-та, 1978.
** = А. А. Худяков Сентенциональный уровень языка в свете теории семиозиса. Образование и культура Северо-Запада России. Вып.6. 2001.
What do you think?
Excuse me about naiveness of questions. Thank you very much.
Большое спасибо.
Achilles.
нашего исследования является анализ высших
форм поведения; но положение в современной
психологии таково, что, прежде чем подойти к
анализу проблем, перед нами встает проблема
самого анализа" (Л.С. Выготский, 1931*)
* = История развития высших психических функций - Глава третья.
Пожалуйста,
In some inner meetings of Vygotsky's group, around 1932-33-34, there was an interesting claim from him about methodological problem of the analysis: "Семический анализ есть единственный адекватный метод изучения системного и смыслового строения сознания" = something like: "[Semicheskii] analysis is the only adequate method for the study of the systemic and [smyslovoe] structure [or construction (?) = stroenie]" of consciousness" ("The Problem of Consciousness" - Collected Works - Volume I - this text was published before as: Л.С.ВЫГОТСКИЙ. Проблема сознания. Запись основных положений доклада 5.12.32 - Психология грамматики. Под редакцией А. А. Леонтьева и Т. В. Рябовой. 1968. - we here had a copy provide by Nikolai Veresov).
Well, in my Portuguese version I have a great problem not exactly because "stroenie" translation as "structure" - spite the word is not "struktura" - but mainly with "semicheskii" that was translated as "semiotic" and Vygotsky's word was not "semioticheskii" - French version translate the same "semitcheskii" has "sémantique" - but this is not so comfortable too, because "smyslovoe" in Portuguese was transformed in "semantic" too. But there is "semantika" and "semanticheskii" in Russian too, at least in present time. I don't know about actual familiarity of Vygotsky with terms such as "semiotics", "semantics", and so on, at that time...
How can we better translate "semicheskii analiz" today? Or, even better: by what methodological means did somebody actually proceed that kind of so important analysis, at that times? To what methodology Vygotsky concretely refereed with the term "semicheskii analiz" ("the only adequate method for the study of the systemic and "semantic" [smyslovoe] "construction" [stroenie] of consciousness")? -- The only title in Russian around this matter that in find in Google search was: Аснин, В. И. & Запорожец, А. В. (1935). Семический анализ языковых значений, усвоенных в школе. Сборник исследований харьковской группы; не был опубликован - something like Asnin, V.I & Zaporozhets, A.V. (1935) Semicheskii analysis of linguistic (?) meanings, adopted in school. Collection of investigations of Kharkov's group. ---> but this was not published...
Can I suppose that not only Vygotsky believed that "semicheskii analysis" was important, but even some people apply it in empirical research? Ow, sure... I can found many entries to "semic analysis" in contemporary semiotic studies, but seems to be no much in a "genetic" approach like is useful to Vygotsky's studies... A "sema" (сема) is "a unity of the linguistic meaning", but current "semic analysis" seems to give no much importance to the developing character o meaning (and sense). Therefore I am very limited in choice an adequate translation, and even more limited in understand the actual concept... "semiotic analysis"(?), "analyse sémantique"(?), "semic analysis"(?) - this was not any kind of "concept formation" study, was it?
In addition I can say to you that I feel this is a methodological subject matter related to the very important question of the "textual analysis" – that is a necessary resource to study the own Vygotsky's and other Soviet/Russian relevant works in history of psychology... Can we find some kind of vygotskian methodology to study the meaning of the own vygotskian texts, for instance? I can remember that “semitcheskii analysis” perhaps could be nowadays related with studies in “Translation theory”, like Sirovatkin*, for instance… around the concept of “semicheskii akt”, quoted by A.A. Khudiakov:
«Одним из центральных в теории Сыроваткина является понятие семического акта, т.е., по существу, акта конструирования сентенционального знака. Последний обладает - и в этом мы склонны согласиться с автором – двумя модусами бытия: семиотическим и актуальным. С семиотической точки зрения знак рассматривается как элемент семиотической системы языка, а с актуальной – как всякий раз неповторимый и не воспроизводимый семический акт, происходящий в необратимом промежутке времени, и уже потому обладающий свойством уникальности: “о повторении семического акта в принципе не может быть речи, повторённый семический акт – это уже другой семический акт” [там же, 42]. Знак как часть семиотической системы (устойчивой, стабильной, в известной мере статичной, застывшей) – это не совсем то, что знак, как семический акт (высказывание). В последнем случае он, сохраняя системные свойства, приобретает некоторые новые, окказиональные, обусловленные спецификой конкретного речевого акта. В данном случае, по-видимому, имеет место дискурсивное приращение окказиональных смыслов к узуальным языковым значениям знаков и даже их трансформация, модификация и т.п. Эта двойная трактовка статуса знака позволяет Сыроваткину различать соответственно две лингвосемиотические дисциплины – лингвосемиотику языка и лингвосемиотику речи [там же, 25].»**
* = Сыроваткин С.Н. Теория перевода в аспекте функциональной лингвосемиотики. – Калинин: Изд-во Калининского гос. ун-та, 1978.
** = А. А. Худяков Сентенциональный уровень языка в свете теории семиозиса. Образование и культура Северо-Запада России. Вып.6. 2001.
What do you think?
Excuse me about naiveness of questions. Thank you very much.
Большое спасибо.
Achilles.