[identity profile] ipain.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] psyhistorik
уважаемый мануэл бомфим, упомянутый в недавнем посте, учился в париже у альфреда бине. бине не очень давали развернуться во франции, зато бомфим так успешно внедрял айкью тесты в бразилии, что у них наступило катaстрофическое падение успеваемости и выпускаемости. дальше случилось забавное..


в минас-жерайсе появляется русскоязычный психолог елена антипова:

родившись в гродно в 1892, жила до 16 лет в питере, потом уехали в париж, что не мудрено после таких к примеру картинок. походила на лекции в сорбонне (жане и бергсон), три года с бине стандартизировала тесты и поехала учиться и защищаться к клапареду в женеву. кслову оказалась в первом выпуске maison des petits of the jean-jacques rousseau institute, а в 1929 ее пригласили перестроить бразильское образование - возглавить новую лабораторию по психологии улучшения школы.

да, а в 1916 в поисках папы пропавшего на мировой войне, она едет в россию. попадает в революцию и с 1919 начинает работать психологом с бездомными детьми в том же питере и в вятке. тусуется в лаборатории нечаева. ну и, тренированая бине, пишет статьи о возможном генетическом факторе в умственных недостатках детей рабочих. это, а также арестованый муж, привели к выезду в берлин и далее обратно к клапареду, уже ассистентом или точнее транслятором идей советской культурно-исторической психологии в женеву. три года статей работы, и предложение 2 летней командировки в бразилию. 1о летний ребенка оставлен в европе (в продвинутой школе у подруги). самолет приземляется в сан паоло. август.

дети из зеленых джунглей оказались похожи на детей из каменных. и хотя ее позвали внедрять тестирование а-ля бине, она всех построила под культурно-историческую парадигму. они не глупые, а лишь необразованные, патамушто учителя такие же - стандартный уже теперь аргумент, перестроил всю систему бразильского образования. концепции "ментальной ортопедики" антипова проводила (и провела) в жизнь вплоть до 1974 года. теперь в честь нее в бразилии фонд.


Date: 2009-05-22 05:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nemo-nostrum.livejournal.com
(аплодирует стоя) Ай, браво, коллега, замечательное расследование, снимаю шляпу! С Bomfim'ом все же не все тут понятно, по крайней мере, мне не все понятно, но в любом случае и эта история, и сама тетка весьма примечательные. Остается вопрос, насколько широко мы готовы интерпретировать бренд "культурно-исторический" применительно к психологической теории и практике: по крайней мере, сдается мне, что с выготскианским его значением г-жа Antipoff скорей всего знакома не была. Зато, с другой стороны, испытала вполне ощутимое влияние замечательнейшего Лазурского. О чем и писала много раз, например, здесь (http://books.google.ca/books?id=0uDNbhae_RMC&printsec=frontcover).

I truly believe you guys, ipain and achilles, should do a study and eventually write a paper on the Russian influences in theoretical and especially applied work of Helen Antipoff. At least, I would really love to see such a paper published and would most enthusiastically encourage anybody willing to do a further study on this topic! What do you guys think about this? ipain? Achilles?

Date: 2009-05-22 10:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nemo-nostrum.livejournal.com
Хм-м, и тут обошли :)... Ну что ж, может, и нравится, надо будет посмотреть; но наверняка там что-нибудь недокручено, хотя конечно существование статьи уже примечательно... Может, Аchilles чего надумает, всегда ж вопросы остаются. К примеру, тема КИТа в Бразилии наверняка недораскрыта, а это стоит того, чтоб с этим материалом хорошенечко поковыряться ещё. Впрочем, это я так, то ли по инерции, то ли опережаю события, но статью Campos конечно же надо сначала изучить...

Date: 2009-05-23 06:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] achilles-brazil.livejournal.com
Bomfim is far way to be my main interest. I can let him way. But my curiosity was because he have some common interests with Vygotsky, dispite in a different epistemic remark, and before Vygotsky writes his works. Then I ask: why this so unprovable similarity? Was there something in common, the "pathos" of international psychology at this time? I hypothesized some kind of relationship from both with Wundt, there was no other common point that I could wonder... This common "historical air"... The "zeitgeist" was my initial curiosity. But this new suggestion could be much better that what I was searching. Why not? History has "changing subjects" and "subjects changing"... I will read Campos. And read own Antipoff as you indicate, in Portuguese. Thank you very much. Best wishes.

Date: 2009-05-23 08:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nemo-nostrum.livejournal.com
Speaking of Campos. There is a number of fairly substantial mistakes in the paper, specifically, as to the influence of the "Vygotsky group" on Helen Antipoff. I doubt there was any influence of the Vygotskians on Antipoff whatsoever. However, Antipoff does acknowledge the considerable influence of Lazursky (the student of Bekhterev, and, for that matter, the teacher of Basov and Myasishchev), a very interesting scholar, the inventor of research method of 'natural experiment'. I truly believe the approach of Lazurski and especially of his students is quite close to that of Vygotsky, although none of them went so far as Vygotsky in his quest for the origin and the workings of consciousness, interrelation of mind, thinking and speech, and, especially, his emphasis on the role of mediation in human development.

Anyway, the similarities between Vygotsky, Lazursky & Co, and Antipoff theories and practices are quite remarkable, if not striking. This is a terrific stuff worth further investigation, and I would like to reiterate my wish to see your future work published, ideally, done in collaboration with Russian-speaking experts like, e.g., our colleague ipain.

Well, something to think about, eh? :)

Have a nice reading, and please do not take the remark about the "jungle" (or "forest") too seriously: this is just a joke and an allusion of a most popular Soviet movie with some incidental references to Brazil (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073927/) :)

Date: 2009-05-23 09:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] achilles-brazil.livejournal.com
Sure! Something very interesting to think about. Surprisingly interesting and really very welcome. But it's a very new matter to search for me. I was, since the very beginning, interested in Vygotsky's theoretical roots, as I was said before. Then, this will change part of my original reading schedule. But I see you have deep contributions and generous disposition to help this work development, Nemo - something precious that I don't have here for other enterprises. And I'm thankful and motivated, despite my limits. Therefore, give a time to read Campos and available chapters from Antipoff. Perhaps then we will can change the subject and title to: "Helena Antipoff: from snow to forest"... who knows? ;)

Date: 2009-05-23 07:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] achilles-brazil.livejournal.com
Campos article: http://www.4shared.com/file/107198938/2fe6f398/Campos_-_about_Helena_Antipoff__1892-1974_.html

Date: 2009-05-23 05:30 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Two things:

1) About Bomfim, I understand and agree, there was many problems with his work - already questioned and criticized here in my country. I understand and agree, except perhaps about the "forests" (леса). But I was most interested in Wundt's relation with his work than Binet's influence. I know that we must see the whole work, historical context, and socio-political consequences. Even so, I guess "Noções de psichologia" (Notions of psychology) is even an interesting book, not quantitative approach but a qualitative one, functional one, and systemic one, in some aspects remembering Vygotsky´s "History of development of higher psychological functions"... Of course different epistemic orientations, but maybe some common root sources. That was my guess. But now I don´t know. Maybe I could let Bomfim away and think directly about Vygotsky and Wundt.

2) About Antipoff, is very important, and most modern too, actual practical applications. I will now translate your post here, and try to answer soon. Thank you very much, since now.

Date: 2009-05-23 05:31 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Excuse me I'm novice here. And had posted without the login.
I am Achilles from Brazil.

Only for share

Date: 2009-05-24 06:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] achilles-brazil.livejournal.com
Bomfim's "To think and to say" (1923), table of contents. 18 chapters. 106 topics. (from Portuguese to English)

http://delari.sites.uol.com.br/histpsic/pensaredizer.htm

Date: 2009-05-23 06:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] achilles-brazil.livejournal.com
About Antipoff's biographical notes I will read in Portuguese. Thank you very much for this opportunity to understand soviet influences in Brazilian Psychology, before the very late publication of Vygotsky's "Formação social da mente" (Translated from English "Mind in Society: Development of Higher Psychological Processes") only in 1984. Best wishes.

Article with some photos

Date: 2009-05-28 02:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] achilles-brazil.livejournal.com
This is another paper from REGINA HELENA DE FREITAS CAMPOS "Helena Antipoff:razão e sensibilidade na psicologia e na educação" [Helena Antipoff: reason and sensibility in the psychology and in the education]. It's in Portuguese but there are interesting photographic registers.

http://www.scielo.br/pdf/ea/v17n49/18405.pdf

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